@Ray_Otus Good point re: the liaisons with Bathurst. I find the book asks a lot of questions. The answers to many are left to the reader - at least so far. Many things and many people will reappear in this book and others by Priest. Athanasia, for example, features much more prominently in The Affirmation, where it is explored in a bit more depth from the perspective of a character who is heading to the island to undergo the treatment. That character shares and his companion share their thoughts. That book doesn’t give answers either, but my point is that this, and perhaps some other elements, might make more sense in the context of a larger body of work than just these first 100 pages. But you have to start somewhere, and I (still) think this book is the best place to start.
I get the feeling there’s a lot here for me to scratch at under the surface, and I delight in that kind of exploration of a book. I’ve just been exhausted from work, so I’ve kind of floated from island to island without much critical thinking.
I do see themes here such as those mentioned in the review of Priest’s other book, and I see them in Priest’s earlier novel The Affirmation, but I haven’t had the energy to think about them in a coherent way.
I am interested in continuing, and maybe work will let up a bit and give me time to engage in the conversation.
> @Ray_Otus said:
> "Without the internet I don’t know what I would do”
>
> Why did I think there was no Internet in the archipelago?
It's one of the little incongruous points that nags at me... how can there be a global Internet but no ability to map the world reliably? Even if for some reason aerial mapping was physically impossible, you'd think someone would have worked out how far apart things were just by pinging data around and timing the responses?
More widely, it intrigues me that we have so far met no kind of origin stories as to how people a) got to the world and b) spread out amongst the islands. I don't recall either folk tales, myths, or scientific dispersion theories aa yet (though these could easily be lying in wait later). I have a sense of a deep incuriousness about the remote past.
@RichardAbbott said:
More widely, it intrigues me that we have so far met no kind of origin stories as to how people a) got to the world and b) spread out amongst the islands. I don't recall either folk tales, myths, or scientific dispersion theories aa yet (though these could easily be lying in wait later). I have a sense of a deep incuriousness about the remote past.
If these are stories told by Islanders for Islanders, why should such origin stories be there? How often do the Norman Conquest and the Danelaw come up in everyday conversations in Britain? Yes, there are references to "Blitz spirit" and "Keep calm and carry on", but those have more to do with jingoism than origins.
@RichardAbbott said:
More widely, it intrigues me that we have so far met no kind of origin stories as to how people a) got to the world and b) spread out amongst the islands. I don't recall either folk tales, myths, or scientific dispersion theories aa yet (though these could easily be lying in wait later). I have a sense of a deep incuriousness about the remote past.
If these are stories told by Islanders for Islanders, why should such origin stories be there? How often do the Norman Conquest and the Danelaw come up in everyday conversations in Britain? Yes, there are references to "Blitz spirit" and "Keep calm and carry on", but those have more to do with jingoism than origins.
Maybe... and maybe I just find stuff about origins because I look for it. But I don't think it's just for islanders - in our world, at least. If you go to the Isles of Scilly, it's hard to avoid seeing things about the inhabitants in ancient times, and what the coastline looked like when the Romans were around, etc. And it's not hard to find books describing a more romantic and/or spiritualised version of how the islands came to emerge from the sea.
Likewise when I went to Madeira a few years back, almost the first thing you see when you land by boat is a very impressive statue symbolising Lady Madeira emerging in fire out of the water. And pretty much the second thing is a bunch of statues of the Spanish and Portuguese sea captains who had discovered, claimed, and then settled the islands. And the guide books are full of all that.
None of that seems to be present in The Islanders - hence my comment of "deep incuriousness" about such things. There have been a few mentions of indigenous inhabitants (or the lack thereof) but with no attempt at explanations of who / where / when / why. The gazetteer has, so far at least, been focused on the artistic world (in the wide sense, I mean, not just picture painters) with only passing concern with any other aspect of the history of the islands. Which is not a complaint on my part, simply an observation - maybe the gazetteer was intended to be circulated in art galleries, playhouses and the like, and not for a random tourist who just wants to travel?
Emmeret is home of the Seigniory of the same name. Many of the historical Seigniors were known for their eccentricities, including children banners, naturists, debauchers, clergy, and landscapers.
The 15th Seignior Emmeret was a drafter of the Covenant of Neutrality. The current Seignior is the 33rd - so 18 generations have passed.
The 26th Seignior Emmeret hosted an artist's colony.
Mesterlinian poet KAL KAPES attended the colony.
Painter DRYD BATHURST also attended, and painted The Wool-Comber's Return. This apparently depicted a minute but salacious image of the Seignoress and 15-y-o Seignorina. For this Bathurst was rewarded with a dead thryme in his bed, and was never seen on the island again.
Bathurst donated his self portrait, The Shroud, to the family for private display, but after the incident above it was peremptorily returned.
How did the Seignior get his hands on a thryme so quickly? 18 generations is `175 years. I doubt very much one was flown in. I also doubt thrymes had been discovered yet. The science and technology in that chapter seemed quite modern. One of those flexible time thingies in operation? Really?
FELLENSTEL (SPOILED SAND)
A large island divided by a mountain range and subject to The Herbean Black Squall.
Strict erotomane laws
Search for the killers of COMMIS began here, despite it being far from the scene. 2 men and 2 women were questioned but eventually released.
The fact that they wrote negative reviews of Commis and other artists made them look suspect in the eyes of the public.
This chapter was useless. It could have been replaced by a single comment in the 'confession' chapter.
FERREDY ATOLL (HANGING HEAD)
This entry consists of a number of letters from one aspiring author named MOYLITA KAINE to the established author, CHASTER KAMMESTON.
[Kammeston wrote this book's introductory, and a biography of artist Dryd Bathurst. Several of his works of fiction are named here]
The replies from Kammeston to Kaine were apparently burned at his request.
Kammeston comes off looking pretty fickle.
Kaine has written a novel called The Affirmation - based on the character of social theorist, E.E. CAURER.
[Christopher Priest's first novel in this setting is also called The Affirmation, but isn't the same story as Kaine's novel.]
This reminds me of an old Bob Newhart telephone bit except not funny. Kammeston looks like an ass, and Kaine looks like an idiot. This fascination with Caurer is looking silly.
FOORT (BE WELCOME)
The author of this entry of the guide refers to this as a fake place, and believes 'Island of Condominium' would be a better name.
It is mainly occupied be well-to-do, over-indulged and well-served by drink ex-pats - any mainly seniors, by the sound of it.
A landscape artist may have made a glowing dune on one end of the island.
Erotomanes are not tolerated. Havenic regulations don't exist, but shelterate laws do, and anti-importunate rules are strict.
More proof that the people of the northern continent are evil and vile.
GANNTEN ASEMENT (FRAGRANT SPRING)
This small island is most famous for hosting an exclusive exhibition of the works of DRYD BATHURST.
This event was the only time all five of Bathurst's large canvasses of the Havoc Sequence were shown at the same time. Several other (now famous) smaller pieces were shown.
We learn that Bathurst was a lothario - something we already suspected. He was described as an exhibitionist, a dauber, a plagiarist, a populist, a coxcomb, an obscuritanist, and an opportunist as well.
Bathurst was media shy, and there's only one photo of him. His one self-portrait, The Shroud, is based on this photo.
Another famous small portrait - E.M. The Singer of Airs - is an alluring and moving portrait of wind researcher, ESPHOVEN MUY (first introduce to us in the entry for the island of Aay).
We know about the event because local reporter, DANT WILLER, attended discretely and wrote about it. She also took clandestine photographs.
Willer's gender is not revealed in this entry, but she (or he) was previously introduced to us as E.E. CAURER's double in the Derril entries.
Bathurst is a Marty Stu. We now have established this firmly, which before was only suspected. He is more handsome, with a magnetic personality, amazingly sexy, and more talented a painter than all the Italian renaissance rolled into one. He apparently was injected with ever-so-much-more-so in the womb.
QUESTIONS & DISCUSSION
Connections are being drawn between various characters - Esphoven Muy was painted by Dryd Bathurst. This was reported on by Dant Willer, who later became E.E. Caurer's double. Caurer frequently referenced the books of Chaster Kammeston, who exchanged letters with a Moylita Kaine, who featured Caurer in her novel. Caurer also investigated the Commis murder and its trial.
What is missing so far is some reason why we should care.
Apart from these 'seven degrees of separation' type connections, can we draw any other conclusions about this group of characters yet?
They are all artists and scientists and something in between.
What do you make of the apparent exchange between Kammeston and Kaine?
I said that above. That is what I took away.
Does Foort remind you of any place you've been? In this entry, is Priest telling us about the Dream Archipelago or our world?
I have no idea what he is telling us, except more proof of the nastiness of the north.
@clash_bowley said:
Bathurst is a Marty Stu. We now have established this firmly, which before was only suspected. He is more handsome, with a magnetic personality, amazingly sexy, and more talented a painter than all the Italian renaissance rolled into one. He apparently was injected with ever-so-much-more-so in the womb.
I don't think so. Bathurst seems to have weaknesses, though he's probably oblivious to them. And all we know about how great he is is what's written in this guidebook - the same guidebook that described KERRITH SINGTON as a 'vicious killer' in one entry, despite showing us he was far from that elsewhere. Maybe he's the Archipelago's Wilt Chamberlain of Painting, but I don't think he's anything more than that.
Comments
I thought his reprisal painting with himself as an old man was a kind of fun, reverse Dorian Gray moment.
Sorry my thoughts on these are so shallow.
I get the feeling there’s a lot here for me to scratch at under the surface, and I delight in that kind of exploration of a book. I’ve just been exhausted from work, so I’ve kind of floated from island to island without much critical thinking.
I do see themes here such as those mentioned in the review of Priest’s other book, and I see them in Priest’s earlier novel The Affirmation, but I haven’t had the energy to think about them in a coherent way.
I am interested in continuing, and maybe work will let up a bit and give me time to engage in the conversation.
> "Without the internet I don’t know what I would do”
>
> Why did I think there was no Internet in the archipelago?
It's one of the little incongruous points that nags at me... how can there be a global Internet but no ability to map the world reliably? Even if for some reason aerial mapping was physically impossible, you'd think someone would have worked out how far apart things were just by pinging data around and timing the responses?
More widely, it intrigues me that we have so far met no kind of origin stories as to how people a) got to the world and b) spread out amongst the islands. I don't recall either folk tales, myths, or scientific dispersion theories aa yet (though these could easily be lying in wait later). I have a sense of a deep incuriousness about the remote past.
If these are stories told by Islanders for Islanders, why should such origin stories be there? How often do the Norman Conquest and the Danelaw come up in everyday conversations in Britain? Yes, there are references to "Blitz spirit" and "Keep calm and carry on", but those have more to do with jingoism than origins.
Maybe... and maybe I just find stuff about origins because I look for it. But I don't think it's just for islanders - in our world, at least. If you go to the Isles of Scilly, it's hard to avoid seeing things about the inhabitants in ancient times, and what the coastline looked like when the Romans were around, etc. And it's not hard to find books describing a more romantic and/or spiritualised version of how the islands came to emerge from the sea.
Likewise when I went to Madeira a few years back, almost the first thing you see when you land by boat is a very impressive statue symbolising Lady Madeira emerging in fire out of the water. And pretty much the second thing is a bunch of statues of the Spanish and Portuguese sea captains who had discovered, claimed, and then settled the islands. And the guide books are full of all that.
None of that seems to be present in The Islanders - hence my comment of "deep incuriousness" about such things. There have been a few mentions of indigenous inhabitants (or the lack thereof) but with no attempt at explanations of who / where / when / why. The gazetteer has, so far at least, been focused on the artistic world (in the wide sense, I mean, not just picture painters) with only passing concern with any other aspect of the history of the islands. Which is not a complaint on my part, simply an observation - maybe the gazetteer was intended to be circulated in art galleries, playhouses and the like, and not for a random tourist who just wants to travel?
How did the Seignior get his hands on a thryme so quickly? 18 generations is `175 years. I doubt very much one was flown in. I also doubt thrymes had been discovered yet. The science and technology in that chapter seemed quite modern. One of those flexible time thingies in operation? Really?
This chapter was useless. It could have been replaced by a single comment in the 'confession' chapter.
This reminds me of an old Bob Newhart telephone bit except not funny. Kammeston looks like an ass, and Kaine looks like an idiot. This fascination with Caurer is looking silly.
More proof that the people of the northern continent are evil and vile.
Bathurst is a Marty Stu. We now have established this firmly, which before was only suspected. He is more handsome, with a magnetic personality, amazingly sexy, and more talented a painter than all the Italian renaissance rolled into one. He apparently was injected with ever-so-much-more-so in the womb.
What is missing so far is some reason why we should care.
They are all artists and scientists and something in between.
I said that above. That is what I took away.
I have no idea what he is telling us, except more proof of the nastiness of the north.
I don't think so. Bathurst seems to have weaknesses, though he's probably oblivious to them. And all we know about how great he is is what's written in this guidebook - the same guidebook that described KERRITH SINGTON as a 'vicious killer' in one entry, despite showing us he was far from that elsewhere. Maybe he's the Archipelago's Wilt Chamberlain of Painting, but I don't think he's anything more than that.